I received a notification that someone had sent me a message on my Goingfaster.com Facebook page so I took a few seconds to log in and read it.
I was not disappointed.
Message from Grant Sloan - January 16 at 11:23pm - "You the fella that wrote Harley Davidson are not American bikes?"Trying not to laugh I thought about how I was going to answer that ... I even thought about throwing out a Val Kilmer image of the actor as "Doc" Holiday in "Tombstone" saying "I'm your huckleberry"
Whereas I'll make this long and educational.
I’ve got glasses, don't really need them but I've got them ... a brand new pair in fact (kind of like them), a really good pair of $400 glasses and ... well, Grant, I’ll be brutally fucking honest with you, man. That non-American Harley in your profile pic looks pretty much the same as any other amateur customized, mail order parts festooned, piece of crap, Milwaukee made, chrome plated, open piped, dildo yacht to me. I guess your Harley is pretty special to you otherwise it wouldn't take up so much of your life, appear in so many of your FB pictures and even replace you as a person in your FB profile pic. The fact is that I really wouldn’t be able to tell your Harley apart in a sea of Harleys in a parking lot (or a pile of parts in a scrapyard) but then since I don’t consider Harleys to be American motorcycles let alone real motorcycles I guess I wouldn’t actually be looking at a motorcycle in your profile pic, now would I?
At least not a real motorcycle.
“That is a 88 fathead i transformed into 107ci 1750cc American Rocket ship. I didn't break the bank building her either. Would put my bitch up against any 650 rice rocket.”
If you say so ... but even with an 88 cubic inch Fathead punched out to 107 cubic inches you're still having to push around 760 plus pounds (stock) of DRY weight (plus the extra weight of all the needless accessories and gingerbread you've obviously added to your self-propelled sofa). Yeah, I wouldn’t exactly call what you ride a “rocket ship” as your '02 Road King is more a sofa on wheels powered by what amounts to a paint shaker that couldn't cut it as an irrigation pump.
"American rocket ship"
Whatever tightens your lugnuts, man. It's your bike so call it what you want but before you go attaching a complex self-described adjective like “American rocket ship” to your Road King, why don’t you tell me why you think that your Road King is an "American rocket ship." You know, share with me a few important bits of information that would lend credence to your claim.
What did your bike perform like when it was stock?
How much horsepower were you making when it was stock?
How much horsepower are you making now?
How much torque were you making when it was stock?
How much torque are you making now?
What gear ratios are you running and how many gears do you have?
Did you upgrade the transmission to handle all that power or are you still using that tractor salvaged gearbox that Milwaukee calls a "transmission?"
What about your brakes?
Did you upgrade your brakes as well to handle all that extra power you're putting out?
What about your suspension?
A Road King has a pretty comfy suspension (it's designed that way from the factory) and in case you didn't know, comfy suspensions aren't very good at transferring power to the pavement. Have you modded your suspension to handle all that extra power that you're supposedly now making? If you modded your suspension to handle the new power you're making you probably did away with a lot of what makes a Road King a "road king" and now you've just got a fast, rough riding sofa.
What does your punched out Fathead engine redline at?
What is your power to weight ratio?
What does your Road King perform like now that you've modded it? Don't tell me that it's a "rocket ship", show me numbers and we'll (me and my site visitors) will determine if your sofa is now a "rocket ship" or not.
Is your Fathead fuel injected or carb fed?
What's the difference overall between what you had stock and what you have now?
All of those questions are important questions to answer but I bet you can’t tell me any of that because that would actually involve math, physics, science, reality and a whole bunch of other concepts which simply don't exist in the fantasy world which Harley riders live in.
you threw some catalog bought performance parts at
your self-propelled sofa and now you think that your hopped up sofa is
fast enough to take on a
600cc or 650cc supersport bike? I seriously hope, for your sake,
that you aren't saying that very loudly nor are you saying it around
anyone with an IQ of 88 or greater.
is a multi-faceted aspect ... it involves more than just dumping power
into an engine, Grant. Engine power is only one part of the
overall concept of performance. You have to transmit that power
pavement which means you have to modify your suspension to handle the
extra power and if you've modded your Road King where it can keep up
with a 600cc import sport bike then I hope to God that you upgraded
your brakes in the process because the stock brakes of a Harley Road
King were never intended to handle the kind of performance that a 600cc
sport bike can generate ... acceleration, handling or braking.
Performance is more than just straight line acceleration, Grant ... a whole lot more, but most Harley owners don't understand that.
Have you ever seen what it looks like when someone tries to throw a sofa around a corner like a sportbike, Grant?
It ain't pretty ...
I’ll tell you some of the numbers for my engine and those numbers are stock … straight from the factory and I've never broken a seal on the engine or swapped out any factory parts for anything after market. Even the air cleaner is a dealer bought factory called-for replacement, nothing fancy like an aftermarket K&N ... just what the factory calls for when I need to change it out. For what it's worth, my 36 cubic inch (599cc) engine makes 115 hp @ 13,250 rpm and 44.5 lbs. / ft @ 11,250 rpm. I'm making almost 3.2 horsepower per cubic inch. Stock, my power to weight ratio is 1 horsepower per 3.21 pounds of dry weight and 1 lbs/ft of torque for every 8.31 pounds of dry weight.
nigh on epic but then you kind of expect that from people who design
bikes looking solely at the future instead of people who design bikes
looking solely at the past.
115 hp @ 13,250 rpm and 44.5 lbs. / ft @ 11,250 rpm all out of 36 cubic inches.
Those are my numbers, stock, Grant.
Can you beat those numbers with your modified '02 Harley Davidson Road King?
Can you even get close in matching those numbers with your "American rocket ship"?
Again, probably not.
do your performance numbers look like, Grant? I’m
curious because I like modifying cars and bikes to go faster (it's a
hobby of mine, been doing it since I was 15 years old and still doing
it today) and you’re
obviously claiming that you turned what amounts to a sofa into what you
claim is a "rocket ship" so ...
what does your “American rocket ship”
spec out like? How does it
perform (and please use a dyno and a time slip from a drag strip rather
than just adding up the numbers advertised on the parts boxes and doing
the "figgering" in your head)?
Can’t tell me?
No, you’re one of those guys who’s just thrown catalog parts you thought were cool at your bike and now you think that you’ve got a “rocket ship”. A "rocket ship?" Grant, you've never been on a "rocket ship" before so how would you know if you had one now or not? Harleys aren’t performance bikes, Grant … never were, never will be which means that if you're going to mod a Harley it's a pretty piss poor platform starting out to try to build any performance on. Harleys are image machines ... nothing else. Harleys are just ways to get you noticed when you wouldn't otherwise be noticed. Harleys are tools to get people to notice the tools that ride the tools when people wouldn't normally notice the tools riding the tools if the tools riding the tools weren't riding a Harley Davidson to begin with. Trying to make a Harley go fast is like trying to hot rod a big yellow school bus. Even with a big block Chevy, dual quads and a full size blower sticking out the hood it’s still just a … big yellow school bus. I'm sure that it impresses the hell out of other big yellow school bus drivers but to someone who drives a Ferrari you're a joke, especially if you try to take your big yellow hot rod school bus on a set of tight canyon curves.
Do you have one horsepower per cubic inch because one horsepower per cubic inch is a pretty good / easy build on a normally aspirated engine. Okay, for the sake of argument I'll give you one horsepower per cube which means that you have 107 hp on a bike that weighs easily twice as much as my bike (which has 115 horsepower, stock, with no rebuilding or modifications or money from my wallet being thrown at it). Even if you have one horsepower per cubic inch I've still got more horsepower than you with half of your engine displacement and half of your weight. Add to that a suspension designed to use as much of that power as possible and transfer it to the street and ...
is a multi-faceted thing, Grant. I've discussed that time and
time and time and time again on my website. Those of us who deal
with real bikes and real performance understand this. Those of
you who just play around with junk do not.
Let’s assume you’re pumping out 107 horsepower, let's give you one horsepower per cubic inch (which would be almost double what you were pumping out stock so you would have to really, really do some miracle work to that tired old paint shaker you laughably call an “engine”. I mean, yeah, I'm making about 3.2 horsepower per cubic inch but then my engine was designed by engineers and technicians who were trying to beat everyone else in the world in organized competition and performance, my engine was designed by people who were trying to be number one rather than being designed by people who just claim to be number one. Your engine has more in common with an irrigation pump than anything even remotely resembling world class competition hardware so I doubt you can get the same results with a punched out Fathead. Okay, sake of argument, assuming one horsepower per cubic inch, easy build on just about any small block Chevy or small block Ford (I'd say small block MOPAR as well but I never really played with MOPAR engines when I was growing up so ...).
One horsepower per cubic inch out of a HD?
I'm sure it can be done ... probably. It's not going to be cheap,
that's for sure, but yeah, it can be done. Honestly, Grant ...
built a hot rod Harley ... that's kind of like building a hot rod lawn
mower ... i.e. I've got better uses for money that I intend to spend on
going fast and throwing money at a Harley Davidson trying to make it go
about as smart as paying a hooker just to cuddle.
Okay ... So we're going to assume that you've got one horsepower per cubic inch with your bumped out 107 cubic inch Fathead would give you 107 horsepower and a power to weight ratio of … 1 horsepower per 7.1 pounds of weight … still about half of what I’m pushing and remember, you’re heavily modified and I’m stock so you're closer, a lot closer to the limit of what you can squeeze out of your motor than I am because there's only so much you can do to an engine before you simply run out of places to either find horsepower in that particular motor or make horsepower out of that particular motor. Plus, let's not forget to mention that your Road King has the handling, grace and aerodynamics of a pregnant epileptic yak on roller skates going backwards downhill ... that and those raised tardbars you hang from when you're riding and all those other accessories you threw on your bike in a failed attempt to make it look less like a sofa and more like the bastard lovechild of a jungle gym and a pack mule really don't do anything for your ability to punch a nice, neat hole through the air, now do they? Do you really want to take your Harley over the ton with your arms up high in what amounts to the surrender position? Let alone the fact that the front of your Harley and that windshield gives your Harley the aerodynamic profile not so much that of a "rocket ship" but more like that of an Amish barn in a windtunnel.
But I digress so back to the discussion at hand.
Keep it simple.
Keep it simple, Shields.
Don't overload the Harley guy's brain with lots of facts, figures and math because the poor guy isn't built to take all that ... in fact, he'll either just stare at you the the deer-in-the-headlights look or he'll just shut down, sit down on the spot and weep softly to himself and that's never pretty to see a supposedly big, tough biker guy do that.
Assuming one horsepower per cubic inch, 107 horsepower and 760 pounds of weight gives you a power to weight radio of 1 horsepower for every 7.1 pounds whereas my 115 horsepower matched with my much lighter weight gives me a power to weight radio of 1 horsepower for every 3.2 pounds. Roughly speaking, I have over twice the power to weight ratio that you have. That's a pretty big advantage in my favor for you to overcome by using a sofa and throwing some catalog bought aftermarket performance parts on it ...
Hell, do you even math, Grant?
To even get close to my power to weight ratio your modded 107 cubic inch Fathead engine would have to be pumping out nearly 240 horsepower (which translates to 2.24 hp per cube). If you wanted the same efficiency as my engine, displacement to horsepower, your Fathead would have to be pumping out 342 horsepower (3.2 horsepower per cubic inch) and I doubt that your motor, even modded, is anywhere near being close to producing that kind of power unless you’re the absolute greatest fucking Harley mechanic to ever live the likes of which the world has never seen before and I’m pretty sure that you’re not. Not even the Harley Davidson 9 second drag-bike drag strip only V-Rod Destroyer makes that much power (it only makes 165 horsepower and I doubt your 107 cubic inch paint shaker is out there scaring V-Rod Destroyer owners at the strip …). In comparison, the 2016 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14R (1400cc or a third of a liter less than you claim your bike displaces) makes 207 horsepower and runs 9 second quarter miles all day long. The nice thing about the Ninja ZX-14R is that you can ride it to the track, smoke your competition, then ride it back home again without ever swinging a wrench or putting it on a trailer which is nice since, after all, you can't ride a V-Rod Destroyer to the track and back. I doubt that you’re cobbled together Road King is out there intimidating any Ninja riders at any stoplights so as far as calling your Road King a "rocket ship" ..., yeah, I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. Granted, you might have the fastest sofa in your neighborhood but you've still only got a sofa and probably a pretty loud one at that.
if your punched out 107 cubic inch Fathead was making 240 horsepower
(which is isn't) or 342 horsepower (which it won't ever) then you'd
still have to have a suspension that got most of that power to the
pavement in order for you to be able to use that power. Having a lot of power is good …
being able to use all that power is even better and sorry to bust your hillbilly wet dream there, Grant, but the Road King is
just not a high performance platform. Never was, never will be no matter how much time, effort and money you throw at it.
I know physics are a tough
sell to a Harley crowd which is itself a small group of uneducated
retards who live almost entirely in the trailer park world of
single-wide make-believe and double-wide fantasy but please,
please, please do try to understand the basics of performance because
performance … real performance … actual performance … is a science, a
tried and true science that applies to motorcycles just like it applies
to a ’71 Plymouth ‘Cuda with a 426cid dual quad Hemi under the hood or
a ’02 Pontiac WS6 Trans Am with a port fuel injected LS1.
I understand if you don’t know much about performance … That’s okay
because neither does Harley Davidson so as the saying goes ... "birds
of a feather flock together" and in that regard you're keeping pretty
For reference, and to give you something to shoot for in your build, my bike (which will be twelve years old this coming summer), stock, can run the quarter mile in 10.63 seconds @ 130.22mph and I have a top speed of 165 miles an hour. Stock. Those performance stats are achieved by having all parts of my bike work together in harmony. Twelve years ago having a 600 that would pull numbers like that was pretty much tearing a new hole in space and time. Today, it's probably average of the 600 class which should have caught up years ago if not already surpassed what my bike can do so before you go picking on something you know nothing about maybe you should go and look at the specs for a modern 600cc sport bike.
It might just make you eat your words ... it might just turn your hair white.
I know that a Harley Davidson Road King is about as slow as a constipated snail going uphill but I'm curious as to just how slow a Road King, a stock Road King, really is. I couldn't find specs on a '02 model but I did find specs on a '09 model and since Harleys never really change from decade to decade I'd say that a '09 Road King would be pretty close if not identical to a '02 Road King. So, let's see what kind of seat material pinching, white knuckle performance we can expect from a Harley Davidson Road King ...
2009 Road King ... powered by a 1450cc V-twin packing 68 horsepower to move its lardass 768 pounds of dry weight, stock.
So ... big.
So ... powerful.
So ... shiny.
So ... loud.
So ... American.
So ... damn slow.
A bone stock 2009 Harley Davidson Road King will do the quarter mile in .... 14.02 seconds at 91.6mph.
Oh for the love of Willie G. on a retarded zebra!
Are you fucking kidding me?
14.02 seconds in the quarter mile at 91.6mph?
You do realize that's pretty fucking pathetic for a motorcycle, don't you, Grant? No. That's way beyond fucking pathetic. I bet there are some zero turn radius lawnmowers out there which will blow that stock Road King into the weeds at the drag strip. Looking at those performance numbers and it's easy to see that that timeslip in particular is less of a drag strip bragging right and more of a participation ribbon given out at the Special Olympics. That '09 Road King's performance is also over three and a half seconds slower in the quarter mile than my (stock) bike is. I don't know if you've ever been to a drag strip before, Grant, but in case you haven't there's a hell of a lot of difference between a car that can run mid 10's in the quarter and one that runs low 14's, the biggest difference being in the distance between the two cars by the end of the race. Let me clue you in ... the driver of the 10 second car is standing beside his car, halfway through his second cold beer and finishing up the interview when the 14 second car finally crosses the finish line.
14.02 seconds in the quarter mile at 91.6mph.
Of course, that's for a stock Road King and you said you've modified yours so I'll give you some lean there. Still curious what your Road King will do with all the work you've supposedly done to it. While I was writing this I went on the Internet and lurked some HD forums that I hang out in just for fun and I saw where a guy was bragging that he'd gotten his Road King down into the mid twelves!
The mid-twelves, Grant!
Can you believe that?!
For a sofa on wheels being able to do the quarter mile in the mid-twelves is flatout fucking flying, I mean, seriously fucking flat out flying! Forget Willie G. on a retarded zebra ... if you have a Road King that can run mid-12s then that means we are definitely talking hyperspace and warp drive there, Grant. If someone's gotten their Road King running mid 12's then there's some real Han Solo and Geordi LeForge stuff going on down there between the frame. Hell, I didn't think that a Road King could break into the high thirteen second bracket without a combination of black magic, sacrificing a virgin and selling your soul to Satan but I guess times have changed. It's ludicrous for something that big to move that fast and whoever did that is probably not only guilty of breaking at least three known laws of physics in achieving those numbers but they're probably really pissing off Neil deGrasse Tyson in the process!
But seriously, all kidding aside, you haven't told me a lot about your engine other than what size it used to be and what size it is now so I'll take the time to tell you a little bit about my engine. Since you had the opportunity to brag and you didn't, allow me to do so instead. My twelve year old factory stock engine is a compact, double overhead cam, sixteen valve, liquid cooled, ultra-high compression (12.5:1), digital fuel injected (2 banks of 4 injectors each), ram air fed, four-cylinder cutting edge (back then) high performance engine displacing just 599cc (36 cubic inches) and backed by a close ratio six speed transmission.
talk a lot, Grant, but I seriously doubt you come anywhere near
performance figures like what I have (stock) with your (modified) bike.
because you’ve got a
bigger engine doesn’t mean you’ll blow me into the weeds and I wouldn't
advise that you take your sofa and go hunting 600cc sportbikes.
owners just really don't understand physics or the science of
performance at all but that’s okay since most of Harley Davidson
itself based on lies and myths with no real basis in facts or figures.
You wouldn't believe the stuff that I've heard come out of Harley
owners' mouths over the years ... or, maybe you would, since you not
only believe the same stuff that the other idiots believe but you're also telling
me some of the same stuff as well.
“You say you are a patriot it doesn't seem that way in the story you wrote.”
I didn't write a story, Grant. I expressed an opinion, a personal opinion, and that opinion was an educated opinion based on facts and backed up with figures and historical notes. Nothing that I said in my opinion was false or untrue.
So you don't think that I'm a patriot?
I'm curious as to how you define who is and who isn't a patriot.
How do you measure patriotism?
Do you use a dipstick?
Do you think that I'm a few quarts low of Screaming Eagle™ brand Ultra Classic Liquid Heritage Edition Patriotism™ and that I should head as fast as I can to my nearest Harley Davidson dealer so that I can buy a couple of cans to top off my patriotism and thus be a better American?
My patriotism is different than yours, Grant ... apparently my patriotism is a whole lot different because my patriotism isn't defined by what I own, what I ride or who manufactured it. My patriotism is defined by who and what I am, not who built what I own and what it is. I’m an American and a patriot regardless of what company I support, what type of car I drive, what type of motorcycle I ride or what brand of firearm is in my hand at the time. I don't have to have permission from Milwaukee to fly an American flag and I damn sure don't have to buy Harley Davidson or Screaming Eagle products in order to somehow validate my birthright or as some laughable prerequisite for me to be able to exercise my constitutional rights. My patriotism isn’t store-bought and I didn’t get my freedom off of a showroom floor or in a taped up cardboard box handed to me over the counter at a Harley Davidson dealership’s parts department. The last time that I checked, I don’t have to go to any particular company or dealership in order to buy or subscribe to the right to wear or display the American flag and no company in the world, let alone some stump fuck hill scoggin run costume rental company in Milwaukee, is going to try to tell me if I'm an American or not.
Here’s another shock to you, Grant …
doesn’t own the American flag. They may think that they do but
they don't ... they hide behind it but they don't
Harley Davidson wipes their asses with the American flag and
people like you jump up and
down and cheer when they do it but Harley Davidson does not and will
never own the American flag. Harley Davidson's history is full of
failure, copying other manufacturers, begging for its life, running
away from competition, hiding behind the government, blaming others for
its own mistakes, not taking personal responsibility, being a poser and
a whole lot of other types of behaviors which I consider to be very
un-American in nature. Harley Davidson can’t sell you
freedom, liberty, patriotism or any other aspect of the American way of
life. I get the
same amount of “freedom” riding my Honda that
you get riding your Road King; the difference is that when I bought my
Honda no one was telling me that I was buying freedom or somehow
carrying on some great American tradition and that it was either my
patriotic duty to support the company that was selling me my motorcycle
or that I'd be less of an American if I didn't buy my motorcycle.
The difference between you and me is that I didn’t
get my freedom and patriotism spoon-fed to me by somebody looking to
make a quick or steady profit off my deep gullibility and my abject
ignorance like you
You’re right, Grant; I’m not a patriot … at least not a store bought freedom-loving pseudo-patriot like you.
I'm a real patriot ... someone who cares more about my country than the bottom line of a company that says it represents America when its entire company history says something way different.
a different kind of patriot than you, Grant, because I’m a thinking,
questioning, acting patriot. I'm an American with
a brain and an education and a willingness to question what I see is
wrong and I have the balls and spine and courage to act in response to
the answers that I discover, especially if I don't like those answers
or I find out that someone's been getting rich off of wrapping their
decades crap in the American flag, getting rich off giving gullible
idiots some patriotic guilt trip all by a companypretending to be
something that they simply
You support patriotic failure because you don’t know any better.
I punish patriotic failure because I do know better.
That's what kind of patriot I am, Grant, and that is exactly why I will never own anything made by Harley Davidson. Owning a Harley Davidson is about the most un-American thing that you can do as an American. If Harley Davidson went out of business tomorrow I'd go out in my front yard and do cartwheels for joy. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for America building a motorcycle but when what's getting built in America's name is junk then I'm against it.
Don't think that Harleys are junk?
I think Sonny Barger, founder of the Hell's Angels, said it best when he said ...
are junk, technology wise. If I was not a Hell’s Angel I would probably
be riding an ST1100, a BMW or a Triumph. But I am a Hell’s Angel so I
ride a Harley, and the one good thing I can say about Harleys is they
made me a good living; by being junk they need to be fixed all the
time. Of the new bikes, I just got a new 2000 model in March.
I've got 22000 miles on it. It runs well, its been opened up, the
brakes work. It's probably the best motor, transmission and brakes that
Harley ever put out. But in reality, technology wise, it's still a
million years behind everything else. Harleys new balancing system on
their 88V motors is the kind of thing a Caterpillar tractor had a
hundred years ago.”
Harleys are junk, Grant.
I know it.
Sonny Barger knows it.
Most everybody knows it except for people like you who keep Harley Davidson in business because you've been given some kind of weak minded, low information rider patriotic guilt trip about how if you don't buy a Harley Davidson you're a bad American. The truth is that Harley Davidson should have gone out of business long, long ago, many times over but it didn't because if it couldn't beg the government for a bailout or a handout or a protective tariff then it was being bought out by some sporting goods manufacturer or going to the richest man in the world and asking for a loan to stay in business. The history of Harley Davidson is very un-American and very not at all like their marketing would have you believe which is why I don't support them and why I don't believe that anything that they build can be considered to be "American" in any way.
If Harley Davidson ever actually stepped up and started making motorcycles that were not only equal to what everyone else was making in regard to engineering, build quality, technology and performance ... or ... (heaven forbid) ... should Harley really become a truly American motorcycle company and start to build motorcycles that are even better than what the rest of the world is building then I'd be the first guy in line to buy a new Harley Davidson but since Milwaukee can't (or won't) then I've got nothing for the hillbillies in Milwaukee. It's not my patriotic duty to keep Harley Davidson in business ... quite the opposite in fact. And ... seriously, why should Milwaukee put all that effort into catching up on nearly seven decades of obsolescence and being left in the dust by the rest of the world when the hillbillies can just keep on selling bumper stickers, T-shirts and the officially licensed and endorsed make-believe lifestyle that they currently sell and still make a pretty good profit off low information riders like you?
Harley doesn't need to change ... not when they're being richly rewarded for their failure. Harley Davidson does not represent America, Grant, in any way, shape or form and therefore riding a Harley Davidson does not make you a patriot or an American let alone a better example of either of those than I am for riding a Honda.
“You do know the history of WWII and Harley, or the fact Harley built jet engines for our military up till the early 2000s right?”
Grant, I do know the history of World War II and I know the history of
Harley Davidson, both probably far better than you do. I know how
Harley Davidson motorcycles were inferior to anything the Germans had
in Europe and that as soon as one of our guys could kill a German
riding a BMW R75 the G.I. dropped the piece of crap American made
Harley Davidson WLA
and picked up the far superior German made BMW R75 and started riding
the German bike instead. Europe was littered with dropped and
abandoned Harleys ... hell, even the Germans wouldn't pick them up and
I also know that the American government, somewhat miffed, approached Harley Davidson telling them of these facts and told Harley to build a bike as good as (or better) than the BMW R75. However, Harley couldn't do that since the BMW R75 was far more advanced than anything that Harley was capable of producing so ... Harley did what they've always done. Harley produced a military bike for the US military that was just as good as the BMW R75 and they did this by completely copying the BMW down to every nut, bolt, screw and rivet and putting the HD name plaque on it and calling it a Harley XA. Even then Harley was copying other manufacturers, a business concept that they’ve been doing ever since as well (they also copied the Europeans in the ‘50’s and the Japanese in the ‘80’s). However, by the time that the Harley XA was ready for production the Willys Jeep had surpassed the motorcycle for being a light, all terrain vehicle able to get people around where they needed to go in a hurry and Harley was pretty much out of the game. It was the Willys Jeep that won World War II, not the Harley Davidson WLA motorcycle and anyone who tells you different is wrong.
if Harley had been smart (like, when has that ever happened in the
company's history ...?), they would have just printed up a bunch of
their bar and shield logo emblems, sent a work team over to Europe and
set up a big tent near the front lines, a big tent with an area where
they could put a couple of air compressors and a bunch of spray guns.
That way, anytime a G.I. went out riding on a Harley WLA and came
back riding on a BMW R75, the Harley team could have just taken the BMW
R75 into the tent, sanded off the serial numbers, spray painted it
olive drab, slapped a bar and shield logo on it then sent it back out
and told the US government that it was taking care of that little
WLA related reliability problem.
Now what’s this?
You say that Harley Davidson built jet engines for our military up until the early 2000's?
Oh, God! This is what having an aneurism must feel like …
say that Harley Davidson built jet engines for our military up until
the early 2000’s? If Harley built anything for the military after
World War II it was Harley Davidson golf carts for the officer’s so
they could get
drunk, ride around the greens to do a little putting then manage to
make it back to the club
house in time for more binge drinking because if there's one thing that
military officers hate it's having to walk when they can be driven
Jet engines for our military!? Who
told you that bit of utter nonsense, Grant … because if I were you, I’d find
whoever told you that and I’d just stop being their
friend because whoever told you that just made you
look like a complete idiot on the Internet ... that and they're an idiot, an even bigger one than you and trust me, that probably takes some doing.
Davidson can’t even build a contemporary motorcycle let alone something
arguably as complex and as advanced as a modern jet engine let alone a military
grade high performance jet engine! Do you know the first
thing about the motorcycle company that you support? Obviously
not. Tell me, Grant … what planes did
these Harley Davidson jet engines go into? Cargo
jets? F-14s? F-15s? F-16s? F-18s? Please,
show me where Harley Davidson built and supplied jet engines to the
military because believe me, I’ve searched the Internet up and down and
all around for the better part of twenty minutes and I can’t find
one single fucking reference anywhere to a Harley Davidson
designed jet engine ever being
built let alone supplied to our military! Oh,
there are some guys
out there who have put jet engines on their Harleys (why!?!?!) and who have put Harley engines into airplanes … private
airplanes, kit airplanes, ultra-lights and what-not (I wouldn't ever
fly in any airplane that was powered by the engine out of a
Harley) but Harley
Davidson has never built nor supplied any type of aircraft engine let
alone a jet engine to any military let alone our military.
I mean, seriously!
Come on, Grant!
Think about it!
Davidson has to go to Ford to build a Harley Davidson edition pickup
truck and you think that Milwaukee is (or was) building jet engines for
the military?! If they can't build a pickup truck on their own
how do you think that they're going to be able to build jet engines?
The hillbillies in Milwaukee are so Fred
compatible that they think that indoor plumbing and electricty are
George Jetson. Hell! The only “jet” that Harley
is familiar with is the color “jet” as in “jet black”.
Harley has never made a jet engine, Grant.
Harley builds make-believe lifestyles and accessories for that make-believe lifestyle. That’s all Harley makes … costumes and costume jewelry and pretend lifestyles and fake motorcycles for fake people who don't know the first thing about motorcycles yet because they have deep wallets they think they can buy a bad ass reputation rather than having to earn one like the rest of us had to do.
are particularly right the rich sunshine 1000 mile riders have
destroyed Harleys image for the true biker. All that is driven by
money, marketing is what they call that.”
No, Grant … Harley Davidson destroyed Harley Davidson’s image when it started relying on image alone to sell its bikes and it did so way back in the 1950’s, long before there was ever anything like a contemporary RUB to come along and save the Motor Company from going out of business (which HD rightfully should have done long, long ago). That’s a fact, documented, and part of Harley’s less than illustrious and less than glorious history. Even back in the 1950's critics were calling Harley out on selling their bikes based on image alone rather than on engineering or technology like the rest of the world was moving towards. Even back in the 1950’s Harley discovered that it couldn’t keep up with let alone make a bike as good as the Japanese or the Europeans so Harley did Harley do the American thing and step up and show the world how it was done by building a better product?
Harley began to sell their products on the only thing those products had left to be sold on … image. European and Japanese bikes were far better built, far more reliable, cheaper to own and operate and had better handling, braking and performance than anything coming out of Milwaukee. Rather than meet the competition head on and defeat them, Harley tucked its tail between its legs and ran for the hills.
was the last time you saw an American act like that, Grant? When
was the last time you saw a patriotic American faced with a challenge
turn and run? Does that sound like a patriotic, American to you,
Grant? Does that sound like a patriotic, American company?
Well, maybe so based on your particular definition of what it
means to be "American" and a "patriot."
Harley Davidson discovered that the rest of the world had left it
behind in the dust, decades behind in fact, then the Motor Company had
a decision to make; either go out of business and shut its doors forever (wouldn't that have been a real fucking shame) or
change to something profitable other than making motorcycles. It was an easy
decision, really, and thus Harley Davidson
wisely got out of the (often failed) motorcycle making business in the early 1980's and
instead became something entirely different: a costume rental company.
stopped being a motorcycle manufacturer and instead became a
make-believe lifestyle provider and a provider not only of a
make-believe poser lifestyle but of all the high dollar, low quality
accessories to go along with that lifestyle. It was bling
over bang and they've never looked back. The only reason that
Harley Davidson survives as a company today (besides having run and hid
from the competition and begged and borrowed its way out of bankruptcy
now) is because it doesn’t compete with other motorcycle manufacturers,
directly, because Harley Davidson isn’t a motorcycle manufacturer any
more (and hasn’t been since the early 1950’s).
People who ride Harleys are not motorcycle riders, Grant … they are cosplayers at best, they are people who live a make-believe lifestyle, dress their selves out of mail order catalogs, drink HD brand coffee at HD dealerships, smoke HD cigarettes, dress from head to foot in HD fashionwear, buy a HD T-shirt commemorating their trip to a HD dealership and pretend to be motorcycle riders all the while assuming that they are cool simply because they own a Harley and had enough money to buy a make-believe lifestyle. Being cool isn’t something you can buy over the counter or off the rack, Grant, and riding a Harley is about the most uncool thing you can ever do in your life. Everyone else who doesn’t ride a Harley knows the truth about those who do ride Harleys.
The fact is that there are two kinds of people in the world; those who ride Harleys and those who are smart enough not to.
Harley is a bike for someone
who knows nothing about motorcycles. Harley Davidson and the
Democrat party are a lot alike … both depend on ignorant
supporters to survive and that continued survival depends on low
information voters / riders like yourself, supporters who would rather
get caught up in emotion rather than thought, supporters who want to be
told what to think, what to say, and how to dress all because figuring that
stuff out on your own, for your own self, is hard.
You’re not a patriot for owning and riding a Harley, Grant.
a gullible source of steady income for a company that tells you
that you can't be an American unless you buy and own their products.
“I put 18000 miles on my non American Harley last year. With 1 major break down drive belt snapped. I want to see a rice rocket do that.”
I don't live on my bike
like you apparently do but then I have three jobs and carry a lot (a
lot) of gear so a motorcycle really isn't the smartest mode of
transporation in my occupation since I have to be ready to move between
jobs and sometimes can't bother to stop to swap gear from one vehicle
to another when I get a call out. My
Honda is something fun to have and ride on days when I don't have
anything to do but it doesn't define me as to who or what I am.
Having ridden dirt bikes since I was 10 and driven cars since I
was 13 I don’t have to prove anything to
anyone, Riding a motorcycle 24/7 in all types of weather isn’t a
my life because at 46 years old I realize that there’s a line between
being some grizzled diehard biker and just being another stupid idiot
trying to impress people and my mother sure as hell didn’t give birth
idiot. I’ll ride in the rain if I get caught in a storm but at 46
years old I’m smart enough to wake up, use the technology at my
disposal, check the
forecast for the day on my smart phone and if the weather calls for
heavy rain and thunderstorms all during the day then I’m going to take
my car to work.
Riding in the rain to prove how tough you are isn’t being a real
biker, it’s being a moron and the only person you’re going to
impress is yourself and your doctor when you finally pay off his bill.
I used to commute on my bike to work, 70 plus miles a day (the primary reason I bought it back in ’04) but then my company gave me a truck to commute in and if someone else is paying for the wear and tear and oil and tires and gas then I’m going to let them (I'm not stupid, remember). When I rode, every day, there were many times when I’d gotten back home and dumped water out of my boots, when I’d been soaking wet down to my soul because I took a gamble against the weather and lost. It didn't stop me from riding but if it was raining the next day I didn't try to put on some rain gear and ride to work to prove something to ... someone ... about how diehard or how "real" of a biker I was. I may start commuting to work again on my Honda once I heal up from my last wreck but for now I’ll just enjoy driving my ’91 Corvette back and forth, windows down, top off, classic rock playing loud on the iPod hooked into the stereo and the dull ever constant rumble of the old 350cid Tuned Port Injected small block Chevy under the big clamshell hood.
I've got other transportation besides my bike and riding a
motorcycle doesn’t determine if I’m a man or not nor does it determine
my value as a human being and my self-worth. If your value and
self-worth revolves around your ability to ride something as ridiculous
as a Harley where ever you go and you somehow keep score in your life
by how many miles you rack up on your Harley each year then it might be
time to re-evaluate what determines who and what you are because you
are obviously using some really low criteria to judge yourself by, in
effect, you’re using criteria to define yourself that no one else gives
a fuzzy blue crap about.
My 04 Honda CBR600RR has over 20,000 miles on it trouble-free. It would have a hell of a lot more but like I said for the better part of eight years there I had a company vehicle so I didn't ride to work every day. Now that the company vehicle is no more I'm back to using what I've got in my garage to get around. As for my CBR, I'm on my second set of tires, my second chain and all I do is put gas and oil in it and keep it tuned. It stays on a race stand in my garage, hooked into a trickle charger and I crank it every week to let it run up to operating temp then shut it back down. When I do ride my CBR, I ride it like a cruiser because my philosophy in life in regards to the power of a sportbike is "I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it." I’ve given you the performance figures for my bike … it is also whisper quiet (at anything other than WOT) and liquid smooth, two things I prefer as I get older. My 600 also gets 42 miles per gallon consistently which is about 16 miles per gallon more than my 250 horse 350cid TPI powered Corvette does. I doubt any Harley, modified to keep up with or beat my 600, would get equal economy and performance or be as smooth and quiet as my bike.
I’ve had no problem with my now twelve year old Honda and I’d take it from one end of this country to the other and back without a hesitation or delay if I ever had to or got the chance. If something ever did happen to my Honda where I had to replace it with another bike then a Honda would be my first choice for a replacement. I’ve been riding Hondas since I was 10 years old. I like the company. I like what Honda is doing with technology and engineering and design. My wife drives a Mercury. Her next car is going to be either a Honda or a Toyota and once the Lingenfelter is dropped into the Vette then I'll probably pick up some beater Honda as my daily commuter as well. I like what Honda builds. I have far more respect for Soichiro Honda than I do for any of the Harleys or Davidsons that formed the Motor Company because Honda was a highly independent person born in a country where nonconformists were hardly accepted. Honda's independence and non-conformity are the antithesis of Harley Davidson's way of life where conformity and dependence are an important part of The Brotherhood, The Sisterhood and The Motor Company.
Honda has my loyalty because their products are unbeatable, reliable and among the best made machines on the planet.
Not so for what rolls out of Milwaukee.
“So undependable again not accurate.”
That's funny because I get lots of emails from people who used to own Harleys and then went back to buying imports because their Harleys just fell apart or they had bad service with them or the Harleys were just pieces of crap to start off with from the showroom floor. I constantly get email from people who tell me that they wish that they had discovered my website before they ever made the mistake of buying a Harley Davidson and now that they know what Harleys are like they’ll never own another Harley ever again.
Oh, I’m glad that your Harley
hasn’t given you very much trouble but for every testimonial like yours
I've got five emails to the contrary. In building and maintaining
my website over the years I’ve had far too many emails and
conversations with ex-Harley now gone back to being import owners to ever make me believe you over
the other people.
Like I said … I’ll stick with Honda.
“I know of very few Harley bone yards in this country.......grinders on the other hand....”
Wow. I don’t know what kind of Internet browser you’re using but I just typed the words “Harley Davidson Junkyard” into Google and got back 450,000 hit results. The page was full of links to Harley Davidson bone yards and salvage parts businesses scattered across this once great nation of ours.
Oh, I doubt very many Harleys ever do actually make it to the boneyard … they're all just made of spare parts anyway. The only difference between a Harley Davidson junkyard and a Harley Davidson dealership is that the junkyard has more knowledgeable people working behind the sales counter and the coffee at a junkyard is probably better. Milwaukee doesn’t make new bikes, Grant. If the Motor Company wants a new model of Harley they just swap parts around from four or five existing models, throw some letters together and call it a new model while adding a few hundred or a thousand to the price so people like you will think that some type of engineering actually went on when it really didn’t. Harley Davidson is like a giant redneck version of Legos. And, besides … It’s kind of hard to junk something that’s made of junk to begin with. If a Harley ever stops working it’s actually worth more to part it out than try to fix it. If a Harley ever gets to the point where it needs to be junked you just tear it down for parts and spread what you've got out over 10 other motorcycles to keep all of them running.
I like the old dealer selling point for Harleys in the 1960’s and 1970’s … "if you’re going to buy one Harley you might as well buy two. That way you’ve got a source of spare parts to keep the first one running when it breaks down." HD build quality really was total crap before the 1980's ... in fact, it took AMF, a company known for making bowling balls and sports equipment, to give Harley their first 100,000 mile engine in the Evolution series motor. Before that, Harleys were lucky to get 20,000 miles out of one of their engines.
“the 883 is a beginners bike for the grinder rider who comes to over to American made heavy bike and don't have a clue how to ride them, and or the smaller men's and women's bike.”
All Harley Davidsons are girl bikes, Grant, even the big ones (which are just big bikes designed for big girls).
If you think Harley Davidson is a man's bike you've obviously never ridden anything with any real guts to it. Harleys are low slung so that the wide child bearing hips, the oversized pelvis and the shortdeck groin setup of a woman can easily clear the seat and gas tank. We won't even talk about the vibration aspect that neutered and gutless paint shaker disguised as an engine produces which makes riding a Harley for a woman so much fun. Yeah, a Harley is definitely not designed for anything swinging a penis and a nutsack between its legs. Turn its engine upside down and it's a mechanical representation of ribbed labia. In fact, I’m surprised that Harley Davidson’s aren’t painted pink from the factory because a Harley really is little more than a gas powered skateboard for a vagina.
“For less than a $2000 I can build up a 1200 sporty that would smoke a lot of plastic jap bikes you speak of.”
Grant, all you’ve done is talk nothing but bullshit and you’ve wasted my time with your laughable bullshit from the very start. Everything you’ve said is either wrong or just utter bullshit. Show me the dyno and drag tests and I’ll believe you. Until then you’re just talking out of your uneducated, hairy, blue collar, unkempt beard sporting ass. If an 1130cc, 115 horsepower, liquid cooled V-Rod can’t beat my bone stock bike (and that’s with Porsche engineering providing the gonads to drive it) I doubt your garage based redneck engineering on a 1200cc Sportster, one of the most gutless and neutered and spineless motorcycles to ever laughably be described using the word “sportster”, would ever come close to beating my 600cc CBR … unless you put like maybe a 200 horsepower shot of nitrous on it or you somehow strapped a JATO rocket to it. What’s funny is that you have to spend $2000 on a 1200cc Sportster to get even close (and I use the word "close" very, very loosely) to the performance of a 600cc import when for $2000 I could go out and buy a used 600cc sport bike that would, stock, blow away anything that Harley produces.
look at the specs for a Sportster, shall we? Since the Sportster
has changed very little in the last five decades just about any
Sportster will do. I found a 2014 model listed with the specs I
was curious about. So ...what does a stock 2014 1200cc Sportster look like?
$10,809 ($2310 more than my ’04 Honda CBR)
DRY weight: 556 lb. (186 lbs heavier than my ’04 Honda CBR)
Wheelbase: 60.2 in. (5.5 inches longer than my ’04 Honda CBR)
Seat height: 27.7 in. (4.6 inches lower than my ’04 Honda CBR, easier to swing short little girl legs over)
Fuel mileage: 36 mpg (6mpg worse than my ’04 Honda CBR)
0-60 mph: 4.2 sec. (.8 of a second slower than my ’04 Honda CBR)
1/4-mile: 12.93 sec. @ 102.22 mph (2.3 seconds and 28 mph slower than my ’04 Honda CBR)
TOP speed: 118 mph (47mph less than my ’04 Honda CBR)
Horsepower: 67.7 hp @ 5680 rpm (48hp less than my ’04 Honda CBR)
you're going to take a nearly $11,000 Sportster, put $2000 more into it
(making it about a $13,000 bike) and you're going to be proud that you
might ("might") get close to keeping up with a bike that has half of
your weight and costs half of what you've got in your Sportster?
That doesn't sound like a very good return on the investment of
my high performance dollars, Grant. A
stock 2014 Sportster has twice the engine that I do but only about half
the horsepower and the reason for that is that Harley doesn’t know jack
about making engines and it doesn’t know jack about making
motorcycles. The Sporty is also over two and a half
seconds slower in the quarter mile and has a top speed only slightly
faster than a dump truck.
don’t know about you but I’m not
really impressed with Harleys “sport bike” and that’s one of the newer
Sportsters (not that Sportsters really changed much over the last five
decades)! Of course, the fact that the Sportster was itself
just a copy of the European muscle bikes at the time (there we go
Harley copying other manufacturers when it can’t make anything original
on its own) and the fact that the Sportster really hasn’t changed in
almost seven decades is just proof that not only does Harley not know
what they’re doing … but that they really aren’t making motorcycles to
for $2000 you’re going to put enough modifications
into a 1200cc Sportster that you will almost double the horsepower,
you'll knock almost two and a half seconds off the quarter mile and add
almost 30 miles an hour to the trap speed and
to finish things off you’ll add almost 50 miles an hour to the top end
all the while
maintaining ease of riding and daily rider reliability? I
seriously doubt that, Grant. You do understand that the faster
you go the more power it takes to go faster, right? It's a steep
uphill climb with more and more power required for less and less gain
in performance. Of course what you're saying is
that you have to put $2000 into a 1200cc (double the engine
displacement of my bike) to build up a sporty to take on a 600cc bike
whereas for $2000 I could go out and buy a used, bone stock 600cc sport
bike that would effortlessly smoke anything Harley Davidson builds off
the showroom floor today and I wouldn’t have to modify it at all.
When I say that Harley owners live in a world of make-believe I mean
it, man. People like you really do live in a world of pure
where mathematics, engineering, performance, technology, and common
sense simply don’t exist at all ... that is, until you get back in the
real world, pull up next to a 600 with your hopped up Sporty and find
that you get your ass handed to you without the 600 rider even working
hard for it.
Again … show me the dyno and the drag results and I’ll believe you. When I start to see Harley Davidson entering Sportsters in the Isle of Mann TT or I see Harley Davidson winning world class competitions with their full dresser models I’ll start to believe you. Until then, save the ignorant talking out your ass for your drinking buddies down at the local Hooters because as it stands they’re the only ones who might believe any of the shit you're saying.
“I'll close by saying Honda motorcycle division does not have plants in this country check your facts.”
This was a picture I took of the back of the seat
of a coworker's daily ridden Honda ... Shadow ... IIRC.
That picture was probably taken, damn, over eight years ago, maybe even ten years ago, so unlike Milwaukee, Grant, things in the rest of the world do change from time to time. You are partially correct. Honda no longer has any motorcycle production facilities in America. Emphasis on the words "no longer has" as in "they did at one time." Yes, up until recently (2009) Honda did have a motorcycle production plant in America, a big one, so what I said on my website was true, at the time that I said it.
Less than a decade ago Honda built motorcycles in America, here on our shores, in Honda owned American factories employing American workers but because everything outside of Milwaukee changes, Honda did what Milwaukee has chosen not to ... evolve. Anyone can slap a Harley Davidson together in their garage (you're proof of that) but for motorcycles ... real motorcycles, especially high performance, close tolerance, precision built motorcycles like my '04 Honda CBR600RR, well, it takes a high tech factory to build something like that. Honda used to build motorcycles in this country, from 1979 to 2009, but they moved motorcycle manufacturing back to new factories in Japan and consolidated their motorcycle manufacturing from several foreign and territorial factories to one large new super factory in Japan. Their American automobile plants are still operating, however, so that's good to know.
It was sad to see Honda move all of its motorcycle production back to Japan but I guess that made good business sense and regardless that won't stop me from buying their products because Honda is, after all, a Japanese company so building Japanese products in Japan isn't as big a sin as you might think. What I like is that with the new centralized high tech factory there's a better than good chance that the new products will be far better in quality than what Honda could have produced at the older Marysville, Ohio plant. In the need to embrace new methods of design and production, it was probably cheaper to build a brand new factory in Japan using local labor than it was to build a brand new factory in America using American labor. Oh, cry me a river about how some hard working American sheetrock throwers from the local sheetrock hangers union didn't get a juicy contract.
Business is business.
The fact is that Honda used to build motorcycles in this country ... for 30 years, from 1979 to 2009 Honda motorcycles were manufactured in America in Marysville, Ohio but because Honda is a company that embraces constantly evolving technology and a company where advanced engineering and cutting edge design are not stagnant there does come the need, from time to time, for the company to have the ability to build newer, better, more efficient factories in which to produce the future products of the company, products which are not stagnant (like the stuff that rolls out of Milwaukee) and products which will keep the company moving forward in the years and decades to come.
Honda's got a brand new super modern motorcycle factory in the Kumamoto Prefecture in Japan! Holy smoke on a waffle! I bet that new place is full of lasers and computers and automated assembly processes and cutting edge motorcycle building robots and all sorts of high technology! I'd love to tour that place and meet the hard working people who are putting together the power of dreams, who are working on building a better tomorrow. I bet there's a night and day difference between what goes on at a Harley Davidson assembly line and what goes on at a Honda assembly line.
You go to Honda, you can hear tomorrow.
You go to Milwaukee, you can hear yesterday.
Oh, I'm sure that taxes, equipment and technology suppliers, labor, etc. had a big play in why Honda chose to build a new factory in Japan rather than somewhere in America but that's how businesses are run ... that's just how successful businesses are run. Looking at the production trends for Honda I see that Honda has been consolidating its global production over the last several years and in doing so, it consolidated it's global production of motorcycles back home.
Why build what you build in ten different factories scattered around the world when you can build it all at one location back home? For what it is worth, my 2004 Honda CBR600RR was built in Japan, at the Hamamatsu plant and not in America at the Marysville, Ohio plant but that didn't stop me from buying it, not in the least bit because the number of places in the world that can assemble a cutting edge piece of super high performance machinery like my '04 Honda CBR600RR you could probably count on one hand minus a few fingers. If my next Honda is built at Honda's newest complex in the Kumamoto Prefecture then I'll assume that it will be built with a level of precision that Honda could not guarantee in any other factory in any other location or on any other shore.
If you're interested, here's a link to a Discovery Channel documentary on how CBRs are made at the Hamamatsu plant. Sorry that the subtitles are in a foreign language but the narration is in English. Watching this video ... it blows my mind to think that it took one hour, from start to finish, down to the second, for Honda to build my CBR600RR. That amount of precision and technical expertise in assembly is simply mind boggling! Can you build a Harley in your garage, from parts, in an hour, Grant? Probably not. Granted you don't have the tools or facilities that they had at Hamamatsu but still ... to build a ten second, 165 mile an hour precision piece of high performance hardware, from parts stockpile to finished machine, in one hour.
Amazing stuff they do there at Hamamatsu ... or did there at one time before everything moved to the new super plant in Kumamoto. I imagine it was pretty much the same at the Marysville, Ohio motorcycle plant as well.
Am I mad that Honda moved its motorcycle manufacturing back to Japan years ago?
Why should I be?
What difference does it make and how would it affect my life in the least?
When I do buy a new motorcycle, when I buy another Honda, I won't care if it's built in America or Japan or on Pluto as long as it's the motorcycle that I want. Now if I lived in Japan and was a Japanese citizen I might care where my Honda was built but me as an American, an American citizen, riding a Honda? Nope, I really couldn't care less where my next Honda was built ... a long as it's built to Honda's exacting, over the top standards of production and quality control.
I found an interesting quote from a museum exhibit on the
Marysville, Ohio Honda plant, a long running exhibit that celebrated 30
great years of American-built Honda motorcycles …
started in 1979, with a field that became a factory, and 64 workers
building two-stroke dirtbikes. Over the next 30 years, the hundreds of
Ohio residents who became Honda associates at the motorcycle plant
built 2,334,403 products, including the flagship touring bike of one of
the world’s largest makers.
Along the way, Honda’s motorcycle plant
in Marysville, Ohio produced an impressive 43 different models,
including some of the most iconic machines on the road in any era. The
motorcycle plant was soon followed by the Marysville Auto Plant, which
today encompasses 3.6 million square feet and has a capacity to produce
440,000 automobiles a year.
For motorcyclists, Honda of America Mfg., Inc. will always be remembered as the birthplace of Honda’s motorcycle production in the United States. And it’s those bikes this exhibit showcases—the pride of Ohio’s Honda plant, built by American workers producing some of the finest machines in the world.”
Built by American workers producing some of the finest machines in the world. That's a quote you'll never find attributed to Harley Davidson's assembly line or its products. Ever. Forty-three different models of Honda motorcycles were built on American shores, over two point three million motorcycles, Honda motorcycles, produced on American soil for 30 years, and then it was over.
Sorry, Grant, but ignorance and wishful thinking on your part can’t overcome facts and history on my part (which is why my website exists and why it is popular). When I wrote that Honda motorcycles were made in America it was at a time that Honda motorcycles really were made in America. Honda may have moved its motorcycle production back home seven years ago but for 30 years before that Honda motorcycles were built in America, by Americans, and that is and was something that I, as both an American and a loyal fan of Honda, can be proud of.
“Hats off for manning up and claiming that garbage you wrote.”
Hats off for dumbing down and stepping forward to prove that everything I ever wrote on my website is absolutely true especially about the kind of person who supports Harley Davidson.
In closing I have to say that I loved, just absolutely fucking loved, the pictures of you on your Facebook page … all the extended middle fingers (which really shows your social class and upbringing), the pics of your woman with a cigarette in her hand looking bored to death, her new leather jacket you fretted so much over buying, you and her in your make-believe lifestyle fashion accessories sitting on your Road King pretending to be what you aren't, the his and her erect middle fingers, the wild eyed stare with your unkempt beard, and the pic of you reclining on your parked Harley there in the parking lot (which only goes to show that your Road King really is a self-propelled sofa and not a real motorcycle). Is the middle finger the standard greeting for blue collar workers in Iowa? According to your pictures it is. I mean, seriously, I looked through your pictures and it was like ... flipping the bird, flipping the bird, flipping the bird ... I guess in Iowa, if you own a Harley and someone wants to take your picture they don't tell you to "say cheese" rather they tell you "flip me the bird" ... or maybe it's just you.
Probably just you.
think my favorite picture of all in your photos collection was the
classic pic of Foghorn Leghorn (the Looney Toons rooster) saying
that one picture in your pictures list and then messaging me with this
bunch of ignorance is what we, smart, educated, think for our own
selves’ kind of patriotic Americans refer to as “irony”.